>I'm trying to compile a list of the religious texts of the world's >great religions... How complete do you want to get? Are you interested in going to the lengths of sorting out various schools of thought within the major religions and texts that may be unique to one particular school, like Martin Luther's Catechism (Lutheran) or the Lin Chi Lu (Rinzai Zen)? That could turn out to be big job. Or are you just interested in the most well-known and widely circulated texts? What about various religious writings that may be considered controversial or "non-canonical" (such as the Gnostic Gospels)? Also, if you're looking for English translations, you should be aware that there is a big difference from one translation to another, as for example, the difference between the King James version of the Christian Bible and the Catholic version. I can make a small contribution to your list of texts, although my knowledge about which schools of thought they fall into may be a little fuzzy, and the list is far from complete. Ch'an and Zen Buddhist texts (some of these overlap with other schools of ---------------------------- Buddhism): The Lankavatara Sutra The Surangama Sutra The Vajracheddika Sutra (Diamond Sutra) The Prajnaparamita-Hridaya Sutra (Heart Sutra) The Kwannon-gyo (I don't know its Sanskrit name) The Platform Scriptures (the teachings of Hui-Neng, the 6th patriarch of Ch'an) The Lin Chi Lu (the teachings of Lin Chi) The Gandavyuha The Transmission of the Lamp Zen Flesh, Zen Bones - a compilation in English containing four separate works: 101 Zen Stories, The Gateless Gate, 10 Bulls, and a pre-buddhist text on meditation (I don't recall the title) Tantric Buddhism: ---------------- The Bardo-Thodol (Popularly known, in the West, as the "Tibetan Book of the Dead") I don't remember the specific names of the texts, but there is a compilation called "Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines" by W.Y. Evans-Wentz, that contains alot of interesting texts, for example there is one called "The Doctrine of the Clear Light" (or something like that). Hindu (Yoga) (I don't know how else to classify these, since they represent a mix): ---- The Bhagavad-Gita The Vedas The Upanishads The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali The Mahabharata The Ramayana Buddhist (Pali) ---------------- The Dhammapada A set of scriptures I've heard referred to as the Pali Canon. The Lotus Sutra "The Eternal Legacy" by Sangarakshita is a survey of Buddhist scripture, and probably tells you more than you ever wanted to know. (Tharpa Publications, London, 1985. Distributed by Wisdom Books in the UK, Europe, and the US.) Some time ago I made a hierarchically organised summary of the texts mentioned in that book, to put them into some sort of order in my own mind. I could post it, but it wouldn't be very enlightening. Buddhist scripture is *vast*, and only full-time professional scholars can study all of it. The last chapter of the cited book gives some pointers as to what a beginner should start with. A note on Buddhism: There is no such thing as a Buddhist "Bible". There are lots of sutras about Gautama Buddha's life and teachings, written at various times and places. There are also lots of writings by later Buddhists, such as Nagarjuna, and which are considered to be "scriptural" by various schools. Since most Buddhists believe that the "truth" is not expressible in words, and since the emphasis is on experiencing reality and attaining spiritual liberation, rather than latching onto somebody's words, the Buddhist texts are not usually regarded as "holy", in the western sense of the word. The Baha'i Faith: ---------------- Kitab-i-Aqdas (Most Holy Book) Kitab-i-Iqan (Book of Certitude) Taoism: ---------------- Tao Teh Ching by Gia Fu Feng and Jane English. The poetic and playful quality attributed to Lao Tse is obvious in it, and it gets high marks from some Chinese scholars. Chang Tzu Confucianism: ---------------- The Analytics of Confucious (Also writings by Menicus) Southern Indian works (Tamil scriptures) ---------------- The Thirukkural (Book of Lofty Wisdom) About a week ago, I posted an article on Meditation as a means to Self-realization. I received a few requests to describe the system I'm practising. I shall try to explain as best as I can. The practice I'm following is called Sahaj Marg(or Natural Path) system of Raja Yoga under Shri Ram Chandra Mission. The aim of the practice is to reach what can only be termed abstractly, 'the highest.' Please do not attempt the practice on your own. A trained teacher is necessary for proper guidance. What is the 'highest'? What is Self-realization? Each human being is a storehouse of a tremendous potential. The highest goal one can have is to actualize this potential and make it one's permanent part. This state of fully utilized potential can be termed as Self-realization or God-realization. God in spirituality is very different from Gods of religions. While God is externalized with fear and temptation as the driving forces to attain Him in religions, in spirituality God is within us and we need to look into ourselves to realize that state of being. Meditation is a means to transform ourselves to that state. In this state, a human being is marked by divine qualities such as, balance, equanimity, profound wisdom and a perfect sense of well-being. Many sages have called this state saintliness or Godlikeness. Many of the goals we might have, happiness, peace of mind, purpose of life and so on are all encompassed by taking up the highest goal. The basic principle of Raja Yoga is,"as we think, so we become." In Sahaj Marg we think of 'Divine light' in the heart. According to Shri Ram Chandra, affectionately called as Babuji, who developed this system, God is subtle, therefore the means to reach him should also be subtle. He found that Divine light is the closest we can think of to that state in order to reach that state. There are no mantras to be chanted, objects to be concentrated upon or tough postures to assume. In Divine light, light refers to a lightness of being we feel with continued practice. Light does not mean luminosity. Through this practice we can evolve continuously to attain that state. As we progress towards the goal, there are obstacles. As outlined in the earlier article, our thoughts leave behind impressions. Further, these impressions guide our present behavior. Because of our past, we are guided into actions or tendencies that may not be conducive to our growth. In other words, we are slaves of our habits. How do we overcome this? One very important practice is 'cleaning,' and it is done at various levels. One, we do it ourselves after each day's work. We imagine that all impressions are going away in the form of smoke. Next, impressions that are deeper are cleaned by trained teachers or preceptors and the spiritual Master. I can testify to the effectiveness of this practice. We can feel a sense of relief by the removal of several undesirable tendencies. We see that some people set examples of what human beings can achieve. 4 minute barrier for running a mile, possibility of climbing Everest, landing on the Moon etc. are examples where achievement by some raises the possibility of achieving for us too. So too in spirituality. In Sahaj Marg, the role of spiritual Master is very important. He guides us to our destination by the cleaning process mentioned earlier and through Yogic transmission or Pranahuti in Sanskrit. A unique feature of the system is the transmission of the spiritual state of the Master to the aspirant through Pranahuti. This can be felt by anyone who practises for a brief period of time. The aspirant's progress is not only accelerated by this process, but also taken to states independent of his/her capacity. The Sahaj Marg system of Raja Yoga is taught to willing aspirants by the Shri Ram Chandra Mission. It was founded in 1945 by Shri Ram Chandra(or Babuji) as an offering to his Guru, who coincidentally was of the same name. The purpose of the Mission is to serve the spiritual needs of humanity. Being a voluntary organization, there are no fees charged. No qualifications are expected of aspirants except for a willingness to try. After Babuji's death, his ablest disciple Shri P. Rajagopalachari is continuing the task left behind by Babuji. In Sahaj Marg, no unnatural practices such as renunciation and austerities are recommended. In fact, material and spiritual sides are emphasized equally. The normal householder duties are taken as a training ground for our growth as a human being. Therefore, all members of the Mission, beginners to the Guru are carrying out their wordly responsibili- ties. A last word I would like to add is that practice is the key. We can see the effectiveness on ourselves only through practice. Another interesting observation I had is that all of us seek different things, peace, happiness, concentration etc. Some of us may not even know what it is that we are seeking. But through practice as we evolve our goals change and even our notions of the goal we were seeking changes and assumes new meaning. I wish all of us have a fruitful experience. -- JANAKIRAMAN,SHANKER Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt8554a Internet: gt8554a@prism.gatech.edu Hi, John (Cha). I appreciated your thoughtful response to my last post. I think we have several points in common: 1) A love of Buddhism 2) A realization of the need to emphasize practice over theory 3) And a distaste for hypocrisy and spiritual shams. Let this be the basis for friendship. Your concerns about economic issues are warranted and based on common sense. I respect them. How, then do I escape the charge that the organization I am affiliated with is not genuine and is only a hoax designed to part seekers from their cash? The following is my attempt to dispell this erroneous idea: NOTE: A disclaimer. Those who have no interest in this particular topic of discussion should press the delete key now. The Society of Abidance in Truth or SAT (as it is called) has been in existence for about 15 years. For about twelve years, Satsang was free of charge and completely open to the public. All funds to support events came from spontaneous donations, and fees were not asked for. However, as the Sangha grew in size and the costs needed to support the facilities increased, it became apparent that month to month contributions on a spontaneous basis were failing to cover expenses. Many who valued the teaching were contributing substantial amounts (i.e. hundreds, if not thousands of dollars per month) to support the Dharma and make the teaching of non-duality available. Unfortunately, some who were not sufficiently wise enough to perceive the value of the teaching, took advantage of the situation and contributed nothing and were content with a "free ride." Eventually, the situation became economically untenable and a decision was made to move to a more democratic solution. Therefore the plan of sharing the financial responsibility equally was instituted. Most felt comfortable with the decision; some balked and protested and deemed it "unspiritual." Oddly enough, it was the ones who had been contributing the least who complained the loudest! Some were so offended that they decided not to be involved with the society. That was their choice. Since then, membership has continued under the same stipulations and Satsang has moved from a strictly public format to a semi-public "by invitation" format. This is not unusual; not all sages have functioned publicly. (I will speak of this in a future post.) Current membership is between 80 and 100 affiliated members, I would guess. (Not all are in California. Master Nome travels to other locations in the USA as well.) Operating expenses are (and I am only guessing) about $20,000 per month. This figure includes mortage payments for facilities, staff salaries, costs of producing a monthly journal about the philosophy on non-duality, insurance costs, administration fees, etc. As I mentioned before, Master Nome is not compensated financially by the society for his teaching services. That is about as much as can be said about the matter. Some like it; some don't; ultimately it is their own choice. It depends on what they value. For me, considering the rare opportunity of receiving the pure Dharma from an elightened master and his enlightened disciples, and practicing the path of non-duality leading to supreme Buddhahood--I think it is one of the most reasonable investments I could make! (I could be spending $200 a month on a health club membership, for pete's sake.) By the way, the membership dues are not rigid. Anyone on a fixed income, such as seniors and students, or under demonstrable financial hardship is eligible for reduced membership dues. The society is flexible on the matter. Mr. Tye raised the issue of "screening" guests, voicing the opinion that anyone at anytime ought to have access to a sage, and that any other position would be "contrary to the tenets of non-duality and Love." This is an interesting topic. In my next post, I will share some historical information as well my own insights that I feel show that this is actually mistaken. Until next time.... (-: OM. ============================================================================= "Association with the Sages who have realized the Truth removes material attachments; on these attachments being removed, the attachments of the mind are quite destroyed. Those for whom the attachments of the mind are thus destroyed, become one with That which is the motionless Principle. They attain Liberation while yet alive. Cherish, therefore, the association with such Sages." --Ramana Maharshi I was going to do a series of articles on sexuality, but then I discovered a talk Da Avabhasa gave in 1983, which begins with : Sri Da Avabhasa: "This emotional-sexual consideration is only in some general sense about sex. It is about our life altogether and most fundamentally it is about spirituality...." He has a ways of talking every subjects from the point of God-Realization, so I have to drop the title 'sexuality' otherwise I will not be able to find to many things that fit the narrow description. I will do an except of the above talk and also from "The Dawn Horse Testament". But before then here is something short to set the scene: Sri Da Avabhasa: "If you are about spirituality and not about love, then you have your head up your ass. The test of spiritual life is in relationship because the failure of spiritual life is in relationship. The ego arises only in relationship and the ego is the betrayal of relationship. As long as you cannot incarnate love, you are endlessly a betrayer of relations and relationship itself." ("The Lessons" vol 1). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- BECOME WOUNDED BY LOVE from a talk given in 1983 Sri Da Avabhasa: "Love one another and there is nothing cool about it. What I mean by this love for one another is to become wounded by love, to submit yourself to that, to live in that world and make your relationships about that. Be vulnerable enough to love and be loved. If you do this, you will be wounded by this love. You will be wounded, but you will not be diseased: The wound of love is the hole in the universe, this domain of Feeling without armoring, without self-contraction, the great physics is present, the great science, the great possibility is evident. Hardly anyone in human history has known of it. Human beings in general do not want anything to do with it. They do not want to come close enough to it to be wounded in their intimacies with one another. It is the doorway to infinite Transfiguration, Transformation, and finally Outshining of phenomenal existence. It is the way into the Transcendental Domain. You must be wounded in order to Realize God. You must be wounded to hear and see. It is felt even physically as a kind of wound. It is felt as intense, armorless vulnerability. If you can begin to awaken to this principle, then you will love one another, your sexuality will cease to be problematic, your friendships and your community life will become possible. You will make a different kind of community, a true spiritual community, which is a process that only uniquely free people can enter into. This wound enlivens you, it releases great force, great energy. It releases all of the armoring of the usual personality. It enables you to love, to be in love. If you become thus wounded and enter into this kind of intimacy with one another, you will not have any troubles about promiscuity and lack of interest in one another and all the petty problems that you make for one another in your unconverted emotional state. All of that disappears, completely disappears. This is the kind of process you must be entering into as a result of our consideration together. Therefore you must make a community of love with one another, a spiritual community." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PRACTICE THE WOUND OF LOVE Sri Da Avabhasa: "Love Does Not Fail For You When You Are Rejected or Betrayed or Apparently Not-Loved. Love Fails For You When You Reject, Betray, and Do Not Love, Therefore, Do Not Stand Off From Relationship. Be Vulnerable. Be Wounded When Necessary, and Endure That Wound or Hurt. Do Not Punish the other In Love. Communicate To one another, Even Discipline one another, but Do Not Dissociate From one another or Fail To Grant one another The Knowledge Of Love. Realize That each one Wants To Love and Be Loved By the other In Love. Therefore, Love. Do This Rather Than Make Any Effort To Get Rid Of The Feeling Of Being Rejected. To Feel Rejected Is To Feel The Hurt Of Not Being Loved. Allow That Hurt, but Do Not Let It Become The Feeling Of Lovelessness. Be Vulnerable and Thus Not Insulted. If you Are Merely Hurt, You Will Still Know The Need For Love, and You Will Still Know the Need To Love. The Habit Of Reacting To Apparent Rejection (By others) As If It Were An Insult Always Coincides With (and Only Reveals) The Habit Of Rejecting (or Not Loving) others. Any one whose Habitual Tendency Is To Reject and Not Love others In The Face Of their Apparent Acts Of Rejection and Unlove Will Tend To Reject and Not Love others Even When they Are Only Loving. Narcissus, The Personification Of the ego, the self-Contraction, or The Complex Avoidance Of Relationship, Is Famous For his Rejection Of The Lady, Echo, who Only Loved him. Therefore, Be Vulnerable In Love. If You Remain Vulnerable In Love, You Will Still Feel Love's Wound, but You Will Remain In Love. In This Manner, You Will Always Remain In The Life-Sphere Of Love. Therefore, The Most Direct Way To Know Love In every moment Is To BE Love In every moment. The Devotee Is Founded In This Capacity By Virtue Of his or her Constant Communion With The Divine Person, Reality, or Truth. If any one Fails To Be Steady In This Communion With Divine Love-Bliss, Then he or she Will Become Weak In Love. To Be Weak In Love Is To Be Always Already Independent, Insulted, Craven, In Search Of Love, Manipulative, Un-Happy, and Moved To Punish, Betray, and Destroy all relationships. Such a one Always Already Feels Rejected and Is Never Satisfied. Indeed, Such a one Is Not Even Found To Be Truly Lovable By others. Those who Love Are Love, and others Inevitably Love them. Those who Only Seek For Love Are Not themselves Love, and So they Do not Find It. (Even If they Are Loved, they Do Not Get The Knowledge Of It.) Only The Lover Is Lovable. Therefore, Every Devotee Should Realize This Principle In Love With The One Who Is Love. Da Avabhasa The Dawn Horse Testament ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Mr Wheeler: RE: how I did my typing. I do not have a scanner. But I have a strong heart, a pair of good hands, and a functioning mind (which do get rather chaotic from time to time). More importantly I did them with loving remembrance of my Guru and in joyful service to thoes who are listening. I am such a crazy lover that sometimes I wish you would say that you do love your Guru, and feel the love in your heart. I have no problem whatsoever that our Guru are different, and undoubtedly there are heaps that I can learn from him. But frankly speaking, I do have a lot of trouble telling what is from you and what is from your Guru. In <1991Aug28.002433.10813@nas.nasa.gov> simmonds@demon.siemens.com (Tom Simmonds) writes: >If you view it that way, then you make it so. The only labyrinth is the >system of ideas and beliefs that a person clings to. It may be true that >many people are seriously entangled in the net of their own conceptions, >and that they need help freeing themselves; but I think it's a mistake >to generalize and say that everyone is that hopeless. It may be true >that many people believe themselves to be blind; but some do not. If your >eyes are open and you have faith in your ability to see, then your turns >need not be random. >One of the problems that hinders people is this belief that Reality is >something difficult and mysterious. If somebody is suffering from that >particular malady, then I think that person probably does need a teacher. >The reason they need a teacher is that they are attached to a misconception. >They imagine a labyrinth where there isn't one. They are not blind, they >merely think they are. >The biggest problem is this idea that there is some *goal* (as you put >it) to be reached, and that it is a very difficult thing to do. People >go to teachers because they believe that. Right from the beginning, it's >nothing but a misconception. I suggest that our sense of separation and of egoic existence is not merely a form of 'wrong thinking' or 'wrong believing'. It is true that fixation to a system of idea and belief is all too prevalent to humanity, but our sense of suffering happens way before the thinking mind develops, and a lot of its symptoms like emotional reactivity, our various addictive behaviors, the cramped sensation in our body etc are manifested at the pre-verbal level of our being. So it is not a matter of manipulating our verbal mind and believe system that we can free ourselves from our presumed state of un-Enlightenment or suffering. Before I go on I would like to present what the Adept Da Avabhasa says about this: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The usual man lives in what I have called "vital shock". This shock ultimately includes more than the vital. It operates even on a very subtle level. But its most obvious and motivation form is the sense of shock in the vital being. Ordinary, the vital, at its chief center in the midst of the body, is contracted, and a man continually feels it, even physically. He may feel a kind of cramp, this tension in the midst of the body. And every man tries to relieve it continually through various experiences, pleasures. This vital center is like the shutter in a camera. Like the shutter in a camera, it curls in on itself in order to close, or else unfurls in order to open. It is like your hand. If you clench your fist and hold it together as tightly as you can, it begins to become painful. Just so, this vital center is alive, sentient, and when it contracts, like your hand, it creates a sensation. Not only does it create a physical sensation, but also many other reflections in life and consciousness. Therefore, when this contraction occurs in the vital, we not only get a cramp in the stomach, we have a whole life of suffering. Every aspect of vital existence is controlled by this image, this stage, this vital shock. The patterns to which men become addicted are simply extensions of this contraction... If fact what people are suffering is not their peculiar life-patterns or strategies in themselves, but this original shock, in the form of primary reaction, this CONTRACTION of which I speak. Men seek through all kinds of means to become free of their various symptoms, their various strategies, including the cramped sensation in the midst of the body. But if a man understands ... this contraction itself, this activity, this drama, at the present, he doesn't have to deal with all the endless extensions of it. True spiritual life, radical life [or life founded in this "root" understanding], is to deal with this fundamental, present activity, this contraction, not with the search that is an expression of it. It is not to deal with the symptoms, not with the strategies that it manifests, but with THIS activity itself, presently. This primary activity, this contraction, is the root and the support and the form of all the ordinary manifestations of suffering, all of the patterns of life that men acknowledge to be their suffering. This contraction, this "avoidance of relationship", is fundamentally, a man's continuous, present activity. ... When the contraction does not take place... when it is no longer a matter of concern, when there is simply this unobstructed path, there is no dilemma. Then there is no one superior to the other, no problem, no jealousy, no distinction. There is only Enjoyment. And where life is constant as that Enjoyment, there is the infinity of Liveration, the Cosmic Consciousness of Truth, the Siddhi [Power] of the Real ... It is simply the Force of the Heart, the Real, which is unobstructed, unqualified Existence. When there is no resistance, no contraction, no separation, there is just this ease of pleasure ... there is no problem. Give it the names if you like. It is simply our nature State." (Da Avabhasa - The Method of the Siddhas) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So our mental obsessions are but one symptom of this fundamental contraction, this constant and present activity of separation from Reality or our nature State. The search for the ultimate dharma and the constant debate on the need of a Teacher and what's not is not even scratching the surface. Those who have followed this news group would know that I am open that Sri Da Avabhasa is my Guru. I do not have an argument or any reasoning to present to you why I am his devotee. But I have lived a eventful and rather uninhibited life, read a great deal, well on my way to fulfill my childhood desires. I thought I was doing fine in learning and gaining insights into life and to follow a teacher is almost the last thing that I would do. But life begun to catch up on me, and in a series of emotional and physical life and death crisis I was brought into contact with the core fear and sorrow that I have strategically suppressed all my life, and I saw the emptiness of my years of philosophy and mental insights and all my pursuits. Life seems to be going well on the surface, but I became acutely aware of the futility of my actions. It was in this depth of despair that I look beyond myself for the first time, and there Sri Da Avabhasa enters and captures my heart and initiates me into the ordeal of self-undersanding. Egoity, the illusion of un-enlightenment is not just an idea in the mind. Our whole body-mind mechanism is the support for this illusion, and Enlightenment is the Enlightenment of the whole body. Have you not heard that all dharma are empty? Sri Da Avabhasa says that the spiritual process does not begin until one has stop talking and thinking. At present the process for me is the turn around of lifetimes of physical, emotional and mental habits. At times it felt worst than cold turkey and the body felt like a battle ground where lifetimes of habit energies is being burnt off. To me the help of a Realizer, someone in whom this process is completed is an absolute necessity. Without this external help is like a drug addict trying to give up his addiction by himself. The process is such an ordeal that it is almost impossible for a normal human being to complete without the awakened love and trust and the transmissions of quickening power of a Realizer. Ultimately the process is about the death of the ego. There is no separate one who suffers from bondage and illusion. The ego is the illusion, it is the constant and present activity of contraction and dissociation from the field of Existence. But the ego cannot see it own dissolution. All the search performed by the ego, all the talk about choosing a teacher or doing the process by ourself are done from the viewpoint of bondage and suffering and all such actions only reinforce and confirm the disease of egoity that we try to get rid of. I do have a Guru, but I did not reason myself into it, and I cannot talk anybody else into it either. Am I disillusioned? But how do you know unless you are already enlightened? It is a paradox, a koan, but who can penerate it? Yee. On 28 Aug 91 16:38:10 GMT Roger Adams said: (I'm not criticizing, just using this posting as a hook) >The biggest pitfall that someone can fall into without a guru is to say: >"Reality or God is what I see with the 5 senses and there is nothing >more to it and that my cats, birds, dogs, etc are enlightened because they >don't think that they are not enlightened and that its only the thought that >I am not enlightened that keeps me from being enlightened... so what is >everybody straining for....Reality is just what is.....just Be...etc. etc." "Reality" is a name/label/concept for what is. Well, even "to be" is a nonsensical idea, too. What sense does it make to talk about "something" that "is not"? Neither does it make sense to think one could "catch" reality in words/notions/ideas/concepts etc. Of course that doesn't make talking obsolete - but confusing an concepts with what it is meant to model is like - as is often said - "taking the moon in the water for the moon". Looking up to the sky and thinking "wow, now that _is_ the moon" is falling in the same trap again, just using a somewhat "nearer" (and such even more dangerous) approximation. Where is this supposed to lead to??| >our true reality by being centered in the ego consciousness. Its this >ego that must be purged in order to get rid of the distractions and false >identifications that keep us from being enlightened. Better yet purge this notion of "Ego" and "Self" and the need to "purge the Ego" (yes, I know it's getting circular - hard to avoid :-). This distinction between "enlightened" and "not enlightened", a nice little trick, just another play with ideas. Purge the difference. Purge the non-difference. Purge all this purging ... As it is said in the Mumonkan (gateless gate; gate which is a non-gate): Mumon: Who passes the gate makes Mumon a fool. Who thinks he cannot pass there binds himself without need. (from my memory, no literal quotation) >This is where a true >guru can help by pointing out to us when we are still operating from the ego >even though we may think we are totally free from delusion, and SHE/HE >reminds us of who we really are. Delusion - free of delusion - just another delusion. > My point is that the delusions of the ego are so numerous and >sometimes so amazingly subtle that I'm sure we can save hundreds if not >thousands of lifetimes of trying to do this on our own by having the Yes, save them: Stop trying :-) >help of the Sat guru (who does not have to be in physical form). Its >the ego that says "HEY, I don't *need* any help, only weak people need >gurus, I can handle this all by myself...LOOK MA!!!!". Making Mumon a fool isn't a nice habit. Self-binding is waste of energy. >But I do concede >the point that its better to do this on your own than to follow some >fool who is still in delusion himself/herself and misleads you further than >you could possibly do on your own. Recursive delusion :-) Please don't misunderstand this (or any of my previous postings) as an argument against teachers, it isn't meant so. I strongly support what others already said about the importance of clearing up with some experienced teacher(s) before establishing oneself as a teacher. Teaching anything - not only "spiritual" teaching - is a demanding task, requiering not only a profound understanding of what one wants to teach, but also much pedagogical skill. Probably everyone knows examples of teachers (e.g. in schools / universities) who are wizards on there subject, but aren't able to "get it over". Additionally in "spiritual" teaching, like with teaching children, it is almost sure many disciples will use the teacher as a model, disregarding how often s/he tells them not to do so. That's what makes teaching (or perhaps better: education) such a responsible task. Though I wouldn't take this as far as refraining from the attempt to help others (otherwise this newsgroup would probably be somewhat boring :-) (As we are at this: all this is of course just my opinion, nothing more) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Marc Wachowitz x903@dmafht1.bitnet (currently preferred) mw@anja.rz.fht-mannheim.de (not reachable from some sites outside Europe < radams@cerritos.edu